Hi Marco, thanks a lot for all of the information you have provided. I have recently trying to set up a sytem of taking HRV measurements regularly to aid in assessing recovery for endurance training. I've read a lot of your writing and advice on this, so I have set up a routine to take my HRV and RHR in the morning, using the phone app, sitting up.
As a little background, I think I am suffering from overtraining at the moment, Im not sure how severe, but I have been getting sick quite often, and failing to recover. I had a serious injury last year, and pushed too hard in training following that for a race. I am now trying to focus on recovery over all else, but I am still trying to pull myself out of the hole a bit.
What I am having difficulty with, is when taking a morning measurement, my HR spikes and HRV dips a bit after waking up and sitting up, often by quite a lot. Say my sleeping HR just before waking is ~40-45. My sitting HR can be ~70-75 bpm just after waking. If I wait and relax for 1min or so, it can drop a bit. If I wait 5min, it will drop further. What I want to know is, obviosuly this impacts the data I am taking, so how long should I relax while sitting up (post bathroom sometimes, which can add time but isn't every morning).
I think this spike in HR and dip in HRV is a sign of autonomic nervous system stress from overtraining and a need for recovery, which I am trying to improve, but the question still remains. Even in very recovered people, they would see this effet (after all, that orthostatic stressor is what we are trying to get). How long do you recommend you wait, and how important is it to be consistent with that time? I feel sometimes if I take it straight away after waking up, its is not indicative of my true RHR or HRV, but maybe I'm wrong, and its a sign that I really should take it easier. But It doesn't seem to reflect the values from the rest of the day, or sometimes how I feel.
Thanks a lot, I hope you can shed some light on this, I am a big fan of your writing, I think you are more objective than most on this stuff. But as I'm sure you are aware, it is only useful if the data is good and the measurements are consistent, data for the sake of it is not much good. Thanks a lot :)
thank you Adam for your support. Normally, there is indeed an increase in heart rate and reduction in HRV as we change body position, as you say this is the orthostatic stressor that we want to capture as a marker of our stress response. However, it tends to be a bit lower than what you report. Could it be that this larger change is also informative and highlights your recovery phase post injury / overtraining? Yes, but it is hard to be sure, it could also just be that you have a more marked response. The goal of the protocol is always to compare consecutive days, and not other moments of the same day, hence as long as you are consistent, any routine that you can repeat daily is fine. While I tend to measure right after sitting up, it is fine to wait a few minutes, hence I would try to find a trade off where you feel like the data is reflecting your state both acutely (e.g. in response to the previous' day stressors) and chronically (in the longer run, with seasonal changes, changes in fitness, etc.). I hope this helps a bit!
You've shared a tremendous volume of knowledge Marco—thank you. I wonder about the relevance of an HRV measurement performed over a few minutes after waking with regard to forecasting the performance potential in the next few hours. So, fundamentally, I'm curious about the usefulness of one night's average, trending that over days, weeks , and months to measure the effects of a lifestyle change—think Oura RIng, and a waking measurement. My personal context is that of a senior citizen seeking to maximize his healthspan. I'm a biomedical engineer who began in cardiac rhythm management and, for the past 20 years, therapies for people managing Type 1 diabetes.
I think these two blogs might address your question, both morning and night data can capture long term changes in similar ways, but there are acute (day to day) differences due to stressor timing and potentially body position
Hi Marco, thanks a lot for all of the information you have provided. I have recently trying to set up a sytem of taking HRV measurements regularly to aid in assessing recovery for endurance training. I've read a lot of your writing and advice on this, so I have set up a routine to take my HRV and RHR in the morning, using the phone app, sitting up.
As a little background, I think I am suffering from overtraining at the moment, Im not sure how severe, but I have been getting sick quite often, and failing to recover. I had a serious injury last year, and pushed too hard in training following that for a race. I am now trying to focus on recovery over all else, but I am still trying to pull myself out of the hole a bit.
What I am having difficulty with, is when taking a morning measurement, my HR spikes and HRV dips a bit after waking up and sitting up, often by quite a lot. Say my sleeping HR just before waking is ~40-45. My sitting HR can be ~70-75 bpm just after waking. If I wait and relax for 1min or so, it can drop a bit. If I wait 5min, it will drop further. What I want to know is, obviosuly this impacts the data I am taking, so how long should I relax while sitting up (post bathroom sometimes, which can add time but isn't every morning).
I think this spike in HR and dip in HRV is a sign of autonomic nervous system stress from overtraining and a need for recovery, which I am trying to improve, but the question still remains. Even in very recovered people, they would see this effet (after all, that orthostatic stressor is what we are trying to get). How long do you recommend you wait, and how important is it to be consistent with that time? I feel sometimes if I take it straight away after waking up, its is not indicative of my true RHR or HRV, but maybe I'm wrong, and its a sign that I really should take it easier. But It doesn't seem to reflect the values from the rest of the day, or sometimes how I feel.
Thanks a lot, I hope you can shed some light on this, I am a big fan of your writing, I think you are more objective than most on this stuff. But as I'm sure you are aware, it is only useful if the data is good and the measurements are consistent, data for the sake of it is not much good. Thanks a lot :)
thank you Adam for your support. Normally, there is indeed an increase in heart rate and reduction in HRV as we change body position, as you say this is the orthostatic stressor that we want to capture as a marker of our stress response. However, it tends to be a bit lower than what you report. Could it be that this larger change is also informative and highlights your recovery phase post injury / overtraining? Yes, but it is hard to be sure, it could also just be that you have a more marked response. The goal of the protocol is always to compare consecutive days, and not other moments of the same day, hence as long as you are consistent, any routine that you can repeat daily is fine. While I tend to measure right after sitting up, it is fine to wait a few minutes, hence I would try to find a trade off where you feel like the data is reflecting your state both acutely (e.g. in response to the previous' day stressors) and chronically (in the longer run, with seasonal changes, changes in fitness, etc.). I hope this helps a bit!
You've shared a tremendous volume of knowledge Marco—thank you. I wonder about the relevance of an HRV measurement performed over a few minutes after waking with regard to forecasting the performance potential in the next few hours. So, fundamentally, I'm curious about the usefulness of one night's average, trending that over days, weeks , and months to measure the effects of a lifestyle change—think Oura RIng, and a waking measurement. My personal context is that of a senior citizen seeking to maximize his healthspan. I'm a biomedical engineer who began in cardiac rhythm management and, for the past 20 years, therapies for people managing Type 1 diabetes.
thanks James
I think these two blogs might address your question, both morning and night data can capture long term changes in similar ways, but there are acute (day to day) differences due to stressor timing and potentially body position
see here: https://marcoaltini.substack.com/p/heart-rate-variability-hrv-measurement and here: https://marcoaltini.substack.com/p/heart-rate-variability-hrv-measurement-49e
Measured vs estimated is great way of adding clarity to data. Thank u.