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Ange's avatar

Hi Marco, I'm using the HRV app for the first time. I've noticed my heart can sometimes 'pound' and feel sped up sometimes after lying/sitting down for a long period of time then being up and about. My breathe rate can feel increased too and I sometimes feel like I need to take deeper breaths for awhile. It can take a little while to settle. Do you think I should then wait longer to take the morning measurement after going to the toilet and say lie down again for a longer time or not?

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Marco Altini's avatar

hey Ange, yes, in this case I'd give it 5 minutes (or the time it takes to feel rested and relaxed again)

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Ange's avatar

Thanks Marco 🙂

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Vassilios Pierrakos's avatar

@Marco, thanks a lot for another great article. I usually wake up, take a visit to the bathroom and then sit there and take a measurement. Should I switch to this protocol, i.e., wake up -> visit to the bathroom -> back to bed for a couple of minutes -> stand up and then sit on a chair and take the measurement?

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Marco Altini's avatar

thanks Vassilios! In my opinion your normal protocol is also fine, meaning that by sitting you are already adding that extra stress, even though this is not exactly the "change of position" stress that is captured in literature about orthostatic measurement (still, it is different from measuring during sleep or lying down). Personally I got in the habit to go back to bed or to a sofa, lie down just ~30 seconds (as I know my physiology in that morning state re-adjusts rather quickly), then sit up, and measure. You could give it a try but again, I do think your protocol is also fine.

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Vassilios Pierrakos's avatar

Thanks a lot for your prompt reply, much appreciated. Any change in the settings of the app? Currently I have it with camera and test type: Single. Moreover any idea whether longer duration, i.e., > 1minute makes any difference? More accurate data for example?

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Marco Altini's avatar

no need to change the settings, all good with Single and Camera. Measurement duration: 2 minutes can add a little more stability in the measurement, even though typically the difference is very minimal. I would not go longer than 2 minutes as we then risk messing it up more than anything (more likelihood to introduce artifacts like swallowing, moving, etc.), hence, my recommendation is either 1 or 2 minutes.

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SpC's avatar

Good having this reinforced! I started with HRV after I'd prepared breakfast, then changed to getting a read soon after waking but not yet upright. I'll take this advice to heart (no pun!) and change my measurement protocol so as to do as suggested after I relieve my bladder of its night time accumulation....

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Duncan W's avatar

I have been using night data imported from an Oura ring to hrv4t for a number of years, and would like to switch to using a morning measurement. Would you recommend just switching and letting the baseline normalize to the new readings?

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Marco Altini's avatar

thank you Duncan. Yes, that would be my recommendation

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Duncan W's avatar

Great, thanks!

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Ian Harris's avatar

I have tried to incorporate HRV testing into my morning routine, but there are so many variables. 1/ I have to pee first, I imagine needing a pee would add more stress

2/ Putting a chest strap on adds more physical stress (especially if it's cold) - for some reason, I cannot reliably use the camera on my Pixel 8 Pro to get a HRV measurement.

3/ Room temperature could also create an extra stresser.

4/ KIDS!!

Which means getting up, peeing, putting on chest strap (hopefully I remembered to leave it in the bedroom rather than downstairs), back into bed, lying down for a few minutes until I can see my HR has settled back down again, and then sitting up and starting off the HRV measurement within 30 seconds...? Certainly gives the autonomic nervous system a lot to think about.

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Marco Altini's avatar

haha thanks Ian, I think it's simpler than it seems :)

but I do get it that 4) can be a difficulty and sometimes make it impossible to establish a good morning routine to assess resting physiology

My point is mainly to clarify that despite the marketing, many of the useful training-related responses are NOT captured with night data, hence at that point, you are better off not tracking HRV, than paying a subscription for data that is not representative of subtle but important training-related stressors (including overtraining), which we can only capture with a proper morning measurement, after sitting up

Some tools are easy to use, others are useful

all the best!

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Max Ohm's avatar

When reading your article, I think the point "Lie down for a few minutes upon waking (e.g. 1-2 minutes if you had to go to the bathroom first)." should be further elaborated, even with a dedicated paragraph. From my own testing, as I'm now measuring after going to the toilet so back in the bed and sitting, I can understand what Ian and yourself are meaning that we should lie down 1 or 2 minutes so that the heart rate goes back to the same level just after waking up, before taking the measure. I'm not using HR chest wrap but just the camera sensor, this could be my next experiment combined with your recommendation to lay down 1 or 2 minutes when back from the bathroom.

One thing I can confirm is that I "feel" the morning HRV4Training measure aligns better on my own body perception compared to the night HRV value from my Garmin watch. Sometimes there are differences, and I tend to "agree more" with what HRV4Training is displaying.

Would you have any recommendations on what exact data metrics to compare between the two platforms to make side by side comparaison? For exemple using Python or Intervals.icu. Thanks ;-)

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SpC's avatar

First time this morning taking HRV via iPhone app as soon as I woke up then sat up at my bedside. Average HRV when supine's been 7.2-7.6 so seeing 9.0 just now caught my attention! Despite the jump I expect to train today (a regular day off work for me) but won't make it a particularly tough effort. Saturday's hour+ may have contributed to a stress reaction that left me feeling as though a cold or virus had caught me Sunday. I worked a typically active day @ work yesterday, BPM 69-134, step count 13,200.

Higher HRV # is better, right? As one's fitness improves the # should be increasing over time?

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Marco Altini's avatar

yes, but slowly. In any case I would give it a few weeks after a change in body position, so that the app re-learns normal variation. Thanks!

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SpC's avatar
Mar 25Edited

Yes, that would be my approach to this. Thanks Marco!

In contrast, I have the results back now from a 7-day Holter test protocol that ended a week ago. The HRV from that test shows rMMSD 284 ms, Mean 930 ms, SDNN 250 ms, SDANN 135 ms, ASDNN 149 ms.

If it would be helpful for you I can send a PDF file via e-mail to the address you'd provided a few weeks ago.

Curiously it also reports max HR of 122 during the entire period. I was using my bike trainer intermittently that week, that 122 was recorded on a day when my Apple watch reported max HR of 148 while I was at work. A few days later a 158 at about the same time of day while I was rather unusually physically active.

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