thank you Jonny. Not aware, even though personally I think that it is not possible to recreate the “morning measurement window” automatically. What I mean is that we are never ‘idle’ for a few minutes, paying attention to our breathing, not swallowing, not talking, not doing other things, in the first minutes of our morning (regardless of how hectic they are). Hence the best way is simply to intentionally measure (e.g. with an app like HRV4Training). No wearables needed :)
Firstly thanks for your great content both on here and on your other channels.
My question is around reliability of data (or how much I can trust HRV):
- Each morning I'll wake up, go to the toilet and then return back to my bed where I'll sit on the edge of it and then trigger a 1 minute reflection in the mindfulness app.
- I'm finding that my HRV is a lot higher than I do this (around the 100 mark give or take small fluctuations). If I don't do this protocol the HRV is a lot less.
- Also, if I have alcohol I can sometimes notice that my app tells my HRV is very low but if I then do my morning protocol the scores can shoot right back up (not always thought) around the 120ish mark.
My context: I'm training for a marathon right now and have been doing a lot of zone 2 running for about a year but I'm no athlete. Your journey that you've shared from where you started around be patient with progress is a motivation for me! I use an 80/20 endurance training plan.
Do my results make sense? I suppose I'm questioning these positive responses in terms of reliability.
thanks Lloyd! Really appreciate it, wishing you the best for your training and the marathon
Regarding HRV: I think what you say makes sense. The protocol aims at creating a reproducible context, which doesn't necessarily mean that the data should be stable before / after the protocol, but that consecutive days can be compared meaningfully. Going to the bathroom is also quite important, as it is the part of the protocol in which you sit and measure shortly after. Your HRV seems on the high end at the population level, which often comes with increased day to day variability (higher often means there is also more room for variability). However, if you keep the protocol consistent, you should be able to track acute and chronic responses to training and lifestyle stressors this way. In HRV4Training you should also see in the homepage your normal range, as smaller differences on a day to day basis tend not to matter as much as when your physiology is e.g. more significantly suppressed. I hope this helps a bit!
Agree with what you are saying, but I noticed that if I have a better night time HRV and resting HR I am better prepared for the next morning activities (workouts) My theory is because the body had more time in the rested state to recover. With heavy meals or alcohol keeping HRV low and RHR high, the body is focusing on digestion and not repair. In effect, the repairs are only happening during the 2nd half of the night (when HRV is higher and RHR is lower) vs the whole night.
Hi Marco, I am sure this is covered somewhere but I have not seen it. Would it be appropriate to do a Garmin Health Snapshot upon waking and seated to accurately record your morning data? Also, can I walk to a chair prior to measurement or is it preferred to simply sit up in bed to record? Thanks! Your articles are really insightful and helpful.
thanks Tim! Yes, I think the health snapshot, ideally with a chest strap (I have not seen validations of Garmin's PPG for spot checks), is a good way to do it. Definitely no problem to move around a bit, for example if you need to go to the bathroom or else, and then go back, sit, and measure. All the best!
Thank you. I was thinking it’d be better than the overnight data from my Enduro2. You do not think the optical sensor on the Garmin watches is as good as the iPhone camera? I’d prefer to not use a chest strap in the morning.
could be Tim! I'd give it a try, I had seen some reports in the past that weren't that great, but my experience with Garmin's night PPG was pretty good, so they probably improved the sensors / algorithms in the meantime.
Thanks Marco! That’s the impression I got from your reviews of Garmin’s overnight readings so I was thinking their Morning Snapshot (2-mins) might be OK. I’m looking forward to the comparison of the morning reading and the overnight reading that’s baked into Garmin’s morning report after reading your articles. Cheers
Thanks so much for this. I finally started using the Garmin Health Snapshot function this morning but from now I'll do it sitting up.
I personally find resting HR isn't that useful for me because my resting HR really responds to time restricted feeding. If I stop eating at 2pm and go to bed at 8:30pm my overnight HR is 51bpm, if I eat at 4pm it's up to 56bpm. It makes sense - digestion demands blood flow but because I don't have the same eating pattern daily it makes trends more difficult to follow. Is there any data on time restricted feeding and HRV?
thanks! I think that indeed both resting heart rate and HRV respond to caloric restriction, see this thread for some of the research and also my own data when restricting calories: https://twitter.com/altini_marco/status/1601101017818726401 - I think similar patterns might be visible with restricted feeding (not what I was doing, but eventually, I think it's just the caloric restriction that causes the body to go into 'survival mode' and reduce heart rate very quickly)
Thank you for the article! Are you aware of any wearables with the option to automatically sample morning data, Marco ?
thank you Jonny. Not aware, even though personally I think that it is not possible to recreate the “morning measurement window” automatically. What I mean is that we are never ‘idle’ for a few minutes, paying attention to our breathing, not swallowing, not talking, not doing other things, in the first minutes of our morning (regardless of how hectic they are). Hence the best way is simply to intentionally measure (e.g. with an app like HRV4Training). No wearables needed :)
Firstly thanks for your great content both on here and on your other channels.
My question is around reliability of data (or how much I can trust HRV):
- Each morning I'll wake up, go to the toilet and then return back to my bed where I'll sit on the edge of it and then trigger a 1 minute reflection in the mindfulness app.
- I'm finding that my HRV is a lot higher than I do this (around the 100 mark give or take small fluctuations). If I don't do this protocol the HRV is a lot less.
- Also, if I have alcohol I can sometimes notice that my app tells my HRV is very low but if I then do my morning protocol the scores can shoot right back up (not always thought) around the 120ish mark.
My context: I'm training for a marathon right now and have been doing a lot of zone 2 running for about a year but I'm no athlete. Your journey that you've shared from where you started around be patient with progress is a motivation for me! I use an 80/20 endurance training plan.
Do my results make sense? I suppose I'm questioning these positive responses in terms of reliability.
thanks Lloyd! Really appreciate it, wishing you the best for your training and the marathon
Regarding HRV: I think what you say makes sense. The protocol aims at creating a reproducible context, which doesn't necessarily mean that the data should be stable before / after the protocol, but that consecutive days can be compared meaningfully. Going to the bathroom is also quite important, as it is the part of the protocol in which you sit and measure shortly after. Your HRV seems on the high end at the population level, which often comes with increased day to day variability (higher often means there is also more room for variability). However, if you keep the protocol consistent, you should be able to track acute and chronic responses to training and lifestyle stressors this way. In HRV4Training you should also see in the homepage your normal range, as smaller differences on a day to day basis tend not to matter as much as when your physiology is e.g. more significantly suppressed. I hope this helps a bit!
Thank, this has indeed helped!
Agree with what you are saying, but I noticed that if I have a better night time HRV and resting HR I am better prepared for the next morning activities (workouts) My theory is because the body had more time in the rested state to recover. With heavy meals or alcohol keeping HRV low and RHR high, the body is focusing on digestion and not repair. In effect, the repairs are only happening during the 2nd half of the night (when HRV is higher and RHR is lower) vs the whole night.
Hi Marco, I am sure this is covered somewhere but I have not seen it. Would it be appropriate to do a Garmin Health Snapshot upon waking and seated to accurately record your morning data? Also, can I walk to a chair prior to measurement or is it preferred to simply sit up in bed to record? Thanks! Your articles are really insightful and helpful.
thanks Tim! Yes, I think the health snapshot, ideally with a chest strap (I have not seen validations of Garmin's PPG for spot checks), is a good way to do it. Definitely no problem to move around a bit, for example if you need to go to the bathroom or else, and then go back, sit, and measure. All the best!
Thank you. I was thinking it’d be better than the overnight data from my Enduro2. You do not think the optical sensor on the Garmin watches is as good as the iPhone camera? I’d prefer to not use a chest strap in the morning.
could be Tim! I'd give it a try, I had seen some reports in the past that weren't that great, but my experience with Garmin's night PPG was pretty good, so they probably improved the sensors / algorithms in the meantime.
Thanks Marco! That’s the impression I got from your reviews of Garmin’s overnight readings so I was thinking their Morning Snapshot (2-mins) might be OK. I’m looking forward to the comparison of the morning reading and the overnight reading that’s baked into Garmin’s morning report after reading your articles. Cheers
Thanks so much for this. I finally started using the Garmin Health Snapshot function this morning but from now I'll do it sitting up.
I personally find resting HR isn't that useful for me because my resting HR really responds to time restricted feeding. If I stop eating at 2pm and go to bed at 8:30pm my overnight HR is 51bpm, if I eat at 4pm it's up to 56bpm. It makes sense - digestion demands blood flow but because I don't have the same eating pattern daily it makes trends more difficult to follow. Is there any data on time restricted feeding and HRV?
thanks! I think that indeed both resting heart rate and HRV respond to caloric restriction, see this thread for some of the research and also my own data when restricting calories: https://twitter.com/altini_marco/status/1601101017818726401 - I think similar patterns might be visible with restricted feeding (not what I was doing, but eventually, I think it's just the caloric restriction that causes the body to go into 'survival mode' and reduce heart rate very quickly)
Thanks for detailed analysis!
Really interesting!
Great Post Marco! Many Thanks for the insights!