Excellent read. I'm truly thankful to you for opening my eyes behind the truth of wearables! I was totally enagaged with my wearable stats all the time, a total slave, but now I won't be :)
Hi Marco, I have been using you app for quite a while. Now I wonder if I could get any benefit, i.e. more accurate RHR/HRV data to measure a morning protocol by using a chest strap (Polar H7 or H10 as you recommend somewhere in your guidance) instead of using a phone camera? Thank you for your kind answer. Thank you for great and useful content. Tomas
thank you Tomas, much appreciated. I use the camera myself, on iPhone, and therefore consider it as good as a chest strap, assuming we know how to use it. This being said, it's hard to argue against using a chest strap: that's the true HRV value and the gold standard. Plus, the data is as reliable on android and iOS (while the camera I would recommend it only on iOS), and it is easier to take longer measurements (e.g. 2-3 minutes that stabilize the signal more). Hence, if for you it is not a problem to use the strap in the morning, that's certainly a great option (and the only way to measure HRV instead of PRV!). Eventually the day to day data and relative changes will track very similarly, but give it a few days or weeks if you see a discrepancy, as the absolute values might differ between sensing modalities.
Thank you, Marco! All is clear. If I understand well, there is no significant benefit, the HRV values will not be more "precious" than PRV values from camera measurement.
Good luck with your scientific job as well as with your running! Tomas
Interesting read and lots to ponder. I’ve noticed problems with accurate sleep capture and always chalked it up to my low resting heart rate. One metric that I do believe merits continuous wear is the step counter. At the end of the day, all the data is interesting, but steps taken gives me a read on my activity level and encourages me to more activity on down days. Look forward to more writing from you, thanks.
thank you Susan, and I agree with you, if we are tracking some proxy of physical activity outside of structured exercise, then we need to wear something continuously.
Thoroughly useful article! This is basically how I use my oura ring. I do wear it 24/7 but only because I'd lose it otherwise! I pretty much use it to collect HRV and RHR and then I loop it through HRV4Training. I used to just use a chest strap and take a morning HRV measurement, but I find the oura easier to just pop on and let it do its thing. It's amusing to see some of the claims being made by some of the wearables out there with no basis in anything. On the whoop podcast, for instance, the host (and founder of whoop) was once talking to a professional golfer about his REM data and even me, without any expertise, had to stifle a laugh.
Really interesting read, thanks Marco! I started tracking stats to try to help me manage my ME/CFS, and it's become way too easy to obsess over body battery and stress on my Garmin to the point of it becoming overwhelming.
Of course, the problem with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is that post-exertional malaise doesn't kick in for one to three days after we've pushed ourselves, by which point it's too late and we've crashed our energy for days, weeks, or even months. Using morning stats are useful to see if my day is likely to be a worse day or a less worse day, but there's also evidence that we don't tolerate higher heart rates and have massively reduced anaerobic thresholds. So a major focus with my pacing is to not let my heart rate get too high, meaning I need to monitor heart rate all day.
I didn't know that activity reduces a watch's ability to monitor heart rate, though activity for me is making a cup of tea or going upstairs *slowly*, which I guess is not to to cause a problem like running or playing tennis would 😁
But, I've read a few of your articles and found them interesting and informative. Honestly, I would *love* a version of HRV4Training (HRV4Pacing ...?) for those of us whose top priority is careful energy pacing (Long COVID and ME/CFS) using your expertise in HRV combined with the scientific research about our misfiring autonomic nervous systems and physiological problems with low anaerobic thresholds and exercise intolerance.
thank you Julia, much appreciated. Indeed I am quite worried about the use of continuous HRV and the implications this flawed approach can have in terms of how impacting negatively users (see some more considerations here: https://marcoaltini.substack.com/p/a-quick-note-on-continuous-heart). Monitoring heart rate is a bit different, and the way you use it makes a lot of sense and can indeed be helpful. Regarding the app, we don't make any assumptions on absolute values or else, hence it can already be used to track changes in HRV regardless of our health or performance, even though I understand it is not the same as having something tailored to a specific use case. I appreciate your support and feedback, thank you again!
Given what you write about active HR tracking, I'm curious, is a garmin even a useful tool? I use it on my runs to help keep me basically on track in terms of "this is a zone 2 workout" but I'm wondering if RPE is just the better metric in most cases?
thanks Greg, RPE is always a good choice, but sometimes it is not the easiest to use, and heart rate can be helpful. I use exercise heart rate mostly to check that indeed I am staying at low intensities when I am supposed to do so, together with RPE.
I'd started to wonder if I'd made a mistake not buying a watch with HRV status (I have a Vivoactive 4s), but reading your articles, perhaps I made the right choice. I take a morning reading using a Garmin watch app called Meditate, using a one-minute 'meditation' (lying quietly in bed - as is recommended for ME/CFS to offset extra stress caused by ANS dysfunction - as soon as I wake up) to pull out average heart rate and rMSSD.
I started using HRV4Training about six weeks ago specifically to get the HRV trends and analysis, and I add my stats manually (I have a Google Pixel 7 Pro, and the camera light is too far away from the lens to get reliable readings). So along with the heart rate pacing, perhaps I do now have a decent set up ...
Are there any wearables or technology that is moving in the direction that can tell you if you are moving correctly. Due to ongoing injuries I note that If I move correctly Things hurt less, I'd like to know if there is any thing being developed that could help in that area?
Hi Marco, I have a quick question. I first became interested in HRV as a metric when using my Garmin Forerunner 955, which as you know all too well, takes overnight readings. I have also relatively recently started using the HRV4Training app. I am relatively young (22) and have a resting HR of around 40 on an average day. However, I am seeing very large discrepancies between my garmin HRV readings and my HRV4Training reading. For instance, last night my Garmin told me I had an average hrv of 69 (max of 111), and a health snapshot in the morning gave a value of 107. (This is after a hard workout and late dinner the previous evening). However, my 7-day average on HRV4T is 210ms (garmin 7d avg of 95ms) and today it was 254ms. I wonder if you could explain why my readings are so much higher in the app and what that should mean for my interpretation of such data? Thank you so much and I’m very grateful for all your contributions
hi Sam, thank you for your message. Indeed that sounds like a large discrepancy, please drop us a line via email with more information (phone used, sensor used, protocol for measurement), and we can follow up: hello@HRV4Training.com - thanks!
Excellent read. I'm truly thankful to you for opening my eyes behind the truth of wearables! I was totally enagaged with my wearable stats all the time, a total slave, but now I won't be :)
Good read , thanks Marco. 👍
thanks Darren!
Hi Marco, I have been using you app for quite a while. Now I wonder if I could get any benefit, i.e. more accurate RHR/HRV data to measure a morning protocol by using a chest strap (Polar H7 or H10 as you recommend somewhere in your guidance) instead of using a phone camera? Thank you for your kind answer. Thank you for great and useful content. Tomas
thank you Tomas, much appreciated. I use the camera myself, on iPhone, and therefore consider it as good as a chest strap, assuming we know how to use it. This being said, it's hard to argue against using a chest strap: that's the true HRV value and the gold standard. Plus, the data is as reliable on android and iOS (while the camera I would recommend it only on iOS), and it is easier to take longer measurements (e.g. 2-3 minutes that stabilize the signal more). Hence, if for you it is not a problem to use the strap in the morning, that's certainly a great option (and the only way to measure HRV instead of PRV!). Eventually the day to day data and relative changes will track very similarly, but give it a few days or weeks if you see a discrepancy, as the absolute values might differ between sensing modalities.
Thank you, Marco! All is clear. If I understand well, there is no significant benefit, the HRV values will not be more "precious" than PRV values from camera measurement.
Good luck with your scientific job as well as with your running! Tomas
Interesting read and lots to ponder. I’ve noticed problems with accurate sleep capture and always chalked it up to my low resting heart rate. One metric that I do believe merits continuous wear is the step counter. At the end of the day, all the data is interesting, but steps taken gives me a read on my activity level and encourages me to more activity on down days. Look forward to more writing from you, thanks.
thank you Susan, and I agree with you, if we are tracking some proxy of physical activity outside of structured exercise, then we need to wear something continuously.
Inoltre, sono curioso: di che parte d'italia sei?
emilia-romagna anche se ho passato gli ultimi 15 anni tra olanda e stati uniti principalmente.
Ah, una bellissima regione! Dove negli stati uniti?
San Francisco!
Thoroughly useful article! This is basically how I use my oura ring. I do wear it 24/7 but only because I'd lose it otherwise! I pretty much use it to collect HRV and RHR and then I loop it through HRV4Training. I used to just use a chest strap and take a morning HRV measurement, but I find the oura easier to just pop on and let it do its thing. It's amusing to see some of the claims being made by some of the wearables out there with no basis in anything. On the whoop podcast, for instance, the host (and founder of whoop) was once talking to a professional golfer about his REM data and even me, without any expertise, had to stifle a laugh.
Really interesting read, thanks Marco! I started tracking stats to try to help me manage my ME/CFS, and it's become way too easy to obsess over body battery and stress on my Garmin to the point of it becoming overwhelming.
Of course, the problem with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is that post-exertional malaise doesn't kick in for one to three days after we've pushed ourselves, by which point it's too late and we've crashed our energy for days, weeks, or even months. Using morning stats are useful to see if my day is likely to be a worse day or a less worse day, but there's also evidence that we don't tolerate higher heart rates and have massively reduced anaerobic thresholds. So a major focus with my pacing is to not let my heart rate get too high, meaning I need to monitor heart rate all day.
I didn't know that activity reduces a watch's ability to monitor heart rate, though activity for me is making a cup of tea or going upstairs *slowly*, which I guess is not to to cause a problem like running or playing tennis would 😁
But, I've read a few of your articles and found them interesting and informative. Honestly, I would *love* a version of HRV4Training (HRV4Pacing ...?) for those of us whose top priority is careful energy pacing (Long COVID and ME/CFS) using your expertise in HRV combined with the scientific research about our misfiring autonomic nervous systems and physiological problems with low anaerobic thresholds and exercise intolerance.
thank you Julia, much appreciated. Indeed I am quite worried about the use of continuous HRV and the implications this flawed approach can have in terms of how impacting negatively users (see some more considerations here: https://marcoaltini.substack.com/p/a-quick-note-on-continuous-heart). Monitoring heart rate is a bit different, and the way you use it makes a lot of sense and can indeed be helpful. Regarding the app, we don't make any assumptions on absolute values or else, hence it can already be used to track changes in HRV regardless of our health or performance, even though I understand it is not the same as having something tailored to a specific use case. I appreciate your support and feedback, thank you again!
Given what you write about active HR tracking, I'm curious, is a garmin even a useful tool? I use it on my runs to help keep me basically on track in terms of "this is a zone 2 workout" but I'm wondering if RPE is just the better metric in most cases?
thanks Greg, RPE is always a good choice, but sometimes it is not the easiest to use, and heart rate can be helpful. I use exercise heart rate mostly to check that indeed I am staying at low intensities when I am supposed to do so, together with RPE.
I'd started to wonder if I'd made a mistake not buying a watch with HRV status (I have a Vivoactive 4s), but reading your articles, perhaps I made the right choice. I take a morning reading using a Garmin watch app called Meditate, using a one-minute 'meditation' (lying quietly in bed - as is recommended for ME/CFS to offset extra stress caused by ANS dysfunction - as soon as I wake up) to pull out average heart rate and rMSSD.
I started using HRV4Training about six weeks ago specifically to get the HRV trends and analysis, and I add my stats manually (I have a Google Pixel 7 Pro, and the camera light is too far away from the lens to get reliable readings). So along with the heart rate pacing, perhaps I do now have a decent set up ...
sounds good to me!
Great article! Thank you!
Thank you!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts Marco, really insightful.
thank you!
The best piece of writing on the waerables. Thank you.
Are there any wearables or technology that is moving in the direction that can tell you if you are moving correctly. Due to ongoing injuries I note that If I move correctly Things hurt less, I'd like to know if there is any thing being developed that could help in that area?
hello Daniel, probably visiting a specialist would be better in this case.
I ask do ask, non seem to know of any, they give adivice etc, but really need something that give real time feedback.
Hi Marco, I have a quick question. I first became interested in HRV as a metric when using my Garmin Forerunner 955, which as you know all too well, takes overnight readings. I have also relatively recently started using the HRV4Training app. I am relatively young (22) and have a resting HR of around 40 on an average day. However, I am seeing very large discrepancies between my garmin HRV readings and my HRV4Training reading. For instance, last night my Garmin told me I had an average hrv of 69 (max of 111), and a health snapshot in the morning gave a value of 107. (This is after a hard workout and late dinner the previous evening). However, my 7-day average on HRV4T is 210ms (garmin 7d avg of 95ms) and today it was 254ms. I wonder if you could explain why my readings are so much higher in the app and what that should mean for my interpretation of such data? Thank you so much and I’m very grateful for all your contributions
hi Sam, thank you for your message. Indeed that sounds like a large discrepancy, please drop us a line via email with more information (phone used, sensor used, protocol for measurement), and we can follow up: hello@HRV4Training.com - thanks!