I read this article, and about 5 of your linked articles. I've been flirting with the idea of doing exactly what you're talking about here for my first marathon this year. I wanted to run one last year but started getting some bad shin splints and such. I still got a half in last year before it got bad, but I've determined that I was definitely over training. Everyone always talks about pace because it's an easy and exciting number. Few talk about heart rate, and then even fewer talk about aerobic/lactate thresholds. I've been putting in some time reading on the subject and I LOVE the way you brought it all together here! It builds my confidence in my current approach, and I DEFINITELY related to the comment you made about your training being at the same general pace of 'unexciting'. I always want to push harder to make it more exciting, but I think this approach will work out much better in the long-term. Thanks for sharing your hard earned research and conclusions! It was an awesome read!
I measured with indirect calorimetry hundreds of people during my PhD, this was before starting to run, and my energy expenditure was way higher than similar individuals, both at rest and during exercise. During exercise, you might link this to muscle fibers I think, even though I have never tested this hypothesis. Apart from this, no explanation other than like most things, we all fall on a spectrum, and I am on the wrong side for this one. Running for 10 years made very large differences, but still, the gap remains big due to what I believe are genetic differences.
Cela me permets de valider ma tactique de course pour mon prochain marathon. En revanche pour les crampes je pense qu'un renforcement musculaire régulier 1 à 2 fois par semaine entre autre en endurance de force peut être utile.
A Very interesting read, especially as I experienced cramps in my last marathon, occurring around the 26k marker, completely taking my pace down. But I think in my case it looks to be more related to hydration and food, as digging deeper, my HR was actually lower than the previous marathons.
But will keep a close eye out on this one in the future.
hi Ioannis! In the past, my long runs were either just slow, or when trying to include intensity, I was probably going too fast and eventually unable to make it a proper long run. Now when in a vo2max block I still do just slow runs, while in this threshold and steady state block, all my long runs include a lot of marathon intensity, which I think is key to prepare for the demands of the event (marathon intensity is then based on heart rate as covered in the post, more than pace).
thanks Jason! Definitely, the cold solves much of the problem in my experience, hence not a fan of studies pretending this is not a factor :)
if it is warm / hot, heart rate is equally useful, but apart from going slower, I also cramp much faster. Studies on cramping are very poorly done, my ideal "running and cramps" study would involve running many consecutive marathons, with different fueling protocols, and in different climates, for different types of individuals (people that cramp frequently, people that don't, different levels of training).
not so practical unfortunately :)
If we do not look at it this way, and just compare groups without even trying interventions or using the real task (marathon), or without looking at dose-responses and the individual (not the group), then I think we are just speculating
Very interesting read and food for thought for anyone looking to build a better race strategy for a marathon race. I am wondering though how come you haven’t found a way to overcome the cramping either through a better nutrition/hydration strategy and/or specific strength training. Being a heavy sweater, i ‘ve found sodium loading to be a game changer in my longer events and that used to be the no1 reason of failed races for me. Hopefully i’ll be as well in Barcelona in March for a sub3 attempt. Best wishes for healthy races!
thanks! I am indeed experimenting with a similar strategy. I would not call it a game changer in my case unfortunately, but it is the only thing we can do, given the very poor support from low quality research on the topic. I try to attack the problem from different angles: I do strength training, and I fuel more and better (precision hydration or maurten gels, + electrolytes pills). I can patch it up at this point, combined with much better fitness it will end up sub3, but it is still a pain if I need to run a 1h20' half to get there :) Too inefficient genetically speaking, despite large improvements given by a decade of training. I won't be racing Barcelona in March, but wish you the best for your race Leo!
Thanks for sharing. Your writing is detailed and provides a lot of moments of reflection for myself, with regards to my own training and ongoing steady state running in this marathon block.
I apologize if this has nothing to do with running economy.
I did a lactate test in a lab some months ago. They found my relative CHO utilization to be very high compared to past ones. Since then, It has been 6 months where I do all longs runs fasted from the previous night and my afternoon after work runs fasted at lest 4 hours.
Do you do some runs fasted or do you fuel for all efforts?
I read this article, and about 5 of your linked articles. I've been flirting with the idea of doing exactly what you're talking about here for my first marathon this year. I wanted to run one last year but started getting some bad shin splints and such. I still got a half in last year before it got bad, but I've determined that I was definitely over training. Everyone always talks about pace because it's an easy and exciting number. Few talk about heart rate, and then even fewer talk about aerobic/lactate thresholds. I've been putting in some time reading on the subject and I LOVE the way you brought it all together here! It builds my confidence in my current approach, and I DEFINITELY related to the comment you made about your training being at the same general pace of 'unexciting'. I always want to push harder to make it more exciting, but I think this approach will work out much better in the long-term. Thanks for sharing your hard earned research and conclusions! It was an awesome read!
Thank you so much James, you made my day. All the best for your training!
Have you any thoughts as to why your running might be inefficient?
hey John, bad genes :)
I measured with indirect calorimetry hundreds of people during my PhD, this was before starting to run, and my energy expenditure was way higher than similar individuals, both at rest and during exercise. During exercise, you might link this to muscle fibers I think, even though I have never tested this hypothesis. Apart from this, no explanation other than like most things, we all fall on a spectrum, and I am on the wrong side for this one. Running for 10 years made very large differences, but still, the gap remains big due to what I believe are genetic differences.
Merci Marco pour ce retour d'expérience.
Cela me permets de valider ma tactique de course pour mon prochain marathon. En revanche pour les crampes je pense qu'un renforcement musculaire régulier 1 à 2 fois par semaine entre autre en endurance de force peut être utile.
thank you Didier, and indeed I'm also doing that, trying to attack the problem from multiple angles :)
all the best for your race!
Thanks for this article.
A Very interesting read, especially as I experienced cramps in my last marathon, occurring around the 26k marker, completely taking my pace down. But I think in my case it looks to be more related to hydration and food, as digging deeper, my HR was actually lower than the previous marathons.
But will keep a close eye out on this one in the future.
thanks Steven! Definitely multiple factors can play a role, wishing you the best for the next races
Marco, previously your long runs contained the same amount of time but in target race pace?
In a related question, you long runs are slow runs in zone 1/2 or mostly contain tempo efforts?
See you in amstelveen!
hi Ioannis! In the past, my long runs were either just slow, or when trying to include intensity, I was probably going too fast and eventually unable to make it a proper long run. Now when in a vo2max block I still do just slow runs, while in this threshold and steady state block, all my long runs include a lot of marathon intensity, which I think is key to prepare for the demands of the event (marathon intensity is then based on heart rate as covered in the post, more than pace).
Marco, awesome stuff as usual! Curious if you’ve ever raced a cold weather marathon and if that at all changed the outcome? I’m a cold weather racer myself and suffer much in the heat/humidity even once acclimated. Curious what your take is on the following research (not all implying anything by asking, just generally curious): https://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/2022/06000/Muscle_Cramping_in_the_Marathon__Dehydration_and.22.aspx
thanks Jason! Definitely, the cold solves much of the problem in my experience, hence not a fan of studies pretending this is not a factor :)
if it is warm / hot, heart rate is equally useful, but apart from going slower, I also cramp much faster. Studies on cramping are very poorly done, my ideal "running and cramps" study would involve running many consecutive marathons, with different fueling protocols, and in different climates, for different types of individuals (people that cramp frequently, people that don't, different levels of training).
not so practical unfortunately :)
If we do not look at it this way, and just compare groups without even trying interventions or using the real task (marathon), or without looking at dose-responses and the individual (not the group), then I think we are just speculating
to be continued in terms of N of 1 experiments!
Very interesting read and food for thought for anyone looking to build a better race strategy for a marathon race. I am wondering though how come you haven’t found a way to overcome the cramping either through a better nutrition/hydration strategy and/or specific strength training. Being a heavy sweater, i ‘ve found sodium loading to be a game changer in my longer events and that used to be the no1 reason of failed races for me. Hopefully i’ll be as well in Barcelona in March for a sub3 attempt. Best wishes for healthy races!
thanks! I am indeed experimenting with a similar strategy. I would not call it a game changer in my case unfortunately, but it is the only thing we can do, given the very poor support from low quality research on the topic. I try to attack the problem from different angles: I do strength training, and I fuel more and better (precision hydration or maurten gels, + electrolytes pills). I can patch it up at this point, combined with much better fitness it will end up sub3, but it is still a pain if I need to run a 1h20' half to get there :) Too inefficient genetically speaking, despite large improvements given by a decade of training. I won't be racing Barcelona in March, but wish you the best for your race Leo!
Thanks for sharing. Your writing is detailed and provides a lot of moments of reflection for myself, with regards to my own training and ongoing steady state running in this marathon block.
thank you Sandeep!
Also Marco,
I apologize if this has nothing to do with running economy.
I did a lactate test in a lab some months ago. They found my relative CHO utilization to be very high compared to past ones. Since then, It has been 6 months where I do all longs runs fasted from the previous night and my afternoon after work runs fasted at lest 4 hours.
Do you do some runs fasted or do you fuel for all efforts?
interesting! Curious to see if you see changes in your next testing
I never run fasted unless I do an easy run first thing in the morning, but it does not happen frequently
At my latest lab results my CHO expenditure fell from 3.1 grams of cho/min to 2.6. It remains to be seen whether this is significant or not