Hi Marco, great post. Considering the "accuracy" of portable lactate devices, do you take 2 readings at each step or just go with one? I own a "The Edge", but something like a "Super Compact GL" would likely be way more accurate, although in no way suitable for outdoor testing. I was wondering if the accuracy of the portable devices is enough to meaningfully look for 0,2 to 0,4 jumps at low lactate levels (1.5- 2 mmol/L)...
thanks Michael, indeed that's the expected error I believe (around 0.2), but this is not unlike any other measurement, eventually here we look at the shape of the curve, and at the biggest jump (0.4 in my own data when I cross LT1), and we can double test (even though it gets expensive quickly) in case of doubts (maybe we can do that just for the critical intensities around LT1 and don't bother too much with the rest). It's all just to get an additional indication, once again it is not a determinant of performance nor it can easily be used to match it to your heart rate (I would 100% avoid that when testing indoors), but still, it can give some useful insights at times, in terms of progress or in terms of slightly nudging us towards a more appropriate intensity, I believe.
Yep I definitely use it, even though it can get a bit tedious (and expensive) on your own. I sometimes struggle to draw blood from my callused hands, which have been holding barbells for 40 years 🤷♂️
Thanks Marco for sharing your thoughts and insights. I’ve been proving lactate after long steady efforts just to see if it’s low or high, just to confirm if it can be a sustainable pace for long. That way I know which pace I should train when training specific training. I see lactate as a good tool for this.
I am not an endurance athlete but rather I lift weights most days of the week and have recently started incorporating more Z2 work and also the Norwegian 4x4 protocol to increase VO2 max. I do both on the assault Air bike. I do the talk test while on the assault bike but I want to put some numbers on it like HR zones and for this I believe I will have to get myself tested at a sports lab. I am going to invest in a lactate meter and do the protocols mentioned in your post including steady continuous efforts.
My question is: is lactate affected by recovery? I dont know if you have ever heard of Peter Attia or Joel Jaimeson but he is the founder of the Morpheus system and the system supposedly adjusts your HR zones for the day based on the morning HRV score. What do you think?
low HRV = likely lowered ability to assimilate additional stress, and as such we can reduce training intensity. Changing zones can be a way to force someone to reduce intensity, but that's not really the point, you can use your regular zones and simply reduce intensity (e.g. train a zone 2 or skip the workout and do it when HRV is back within the normal range). Some tools are useful (e.g. tracking HRV), other seem to be like gimmicks just to keep you engaged with the tool, more than to understand the process (e.g. constantly adjusting things that are not even things, like zones, or wearables new "stress monitors' also constantly providing nonsense feedback, etc..) - big picture first! Track your response, and then adjust your training, no need to adjust your zones every day because your physiology changes.
Thanks for this. For a number of complex reasons, (high dose corticosteroids being one) monitoring lactate has never been helpful. After discussing it with the ever-helpful Stephen Seiler I replaced this with Cardiac drift testing. Despite lactates over 2 mmol/l with a good monitor that works on others, I could bike for over 6 h with zero carb intake and little cardiac drift. Clearly, for some outliers, lactate testing doesn’t provide useful data.
thank you Steve, and definitely I'd think there can be quite a few cases where lactate data might not be particularly helpful - even just based on dietary choices. The good news is that it doesn't really matter, it's just one data point we can integrate in our system if useful, or we can use other ways to capture how our body is responding to different training demands. Cardiac drift can also be a very useful tool, when properly contextualized. All the best!
Appreciate the blogs, the App, and taking the time to read and reply. Yours was the last of four HRV apps I used, and the one I’m sticking with. Gratitude.
Hi Marco, how long is your warm-up before starting the first LT1 test step? I have noticed a longer warm-up results in a lower baseline lactate. At present I do 10mins (on the stationary bike, I'm not a runner). I get it that you need a standardized protocol, just wondering how long yours is...Regards from Germany, keep up the great work
Thansk Marco for this really helpful article. I oftent hear coaches that use lactate testing for intensity control. From a point of view I'd love to use it myself for that reason too. But there are a lot of practical problems that I don't know hot to solve. For example how do athletes manage nutrition before a training session where they intend to use lactate as intensity control? Do they standadize nutrition before the workout? Do they wait about 4 hours after the meal before training or they even train without waiting that much?
I think that waiting 4 hours after the meal is really impractical, especially for an amateur. Would it be possible to get reliable results by eating a standardized breakfast, without waiting about 4 hours before training? Sorry for my bad English and my too long comment :)
thank you Alessandro, those are indeed all good options, even though you might also find that nutrition has a minimal impact (in my own data there was basically no change in lactate after a low carb breakfast and after eating 40g CHO, just a little higher in the second case, but the relative changes over time were the same). Personally I think this is not a particularly useful application outside of specific contexts (i.e. people that are able to train ridiculously high amounts of time / week at high intensity, and would want to somewhat control that intensity), while for most people you can typically just use other tools (perceived effort and combinations of internal/external load in more practical ways), for the limited amount of high intensity work that is done in a week.
Hi Marco, great post. Considering the "accuracy" of portable lactate devices, do you take 2 readings at each step or just go with one? I own a "The Edge", but something like a "Super Compact GL" would likely be way more accurate, although in no way suitable for outdoor testing. I was wondering if the accuracy of the portable devices is enough to meaningfully look for 0,2 to 0,4 jumps at low lactate levels (1.5- 2 mmol/L)...
thanks Michael, indeed that's the expected error I believe (around 0.2), but this is not unlike any other measurement, eventually here we look at the shape of the curve, and at the biggest jump (0.4 in my own data when I cross LT1), and we can double test (even though it gets expensive quickly) in case of doubts (maybe we can do that just for the critical intensities around LT1 and don't bother too much with the rest). It's all just to get an additional indication, once again it is not a determinant of performance nor it can easily be used to match it to your heart rate (I would 100% avoid that when testing indoors), but still, it can give some useful insights at times, in terms of progress or in terms of slightly nudging us towards a more appropriate intensity, I believe.
Yep I definitely use it, even though it can get a bit tedious (and expensive) on your own. I sometimes struggle to draw blood from my callused hands, which have been holding barbells for 40 years 🤷♂️
Thanks Marco for sharing your thoughts and insights. I’ve been proving lactate after long steady efforts just to see if it’s low or high, just to confirm if it can be a sustainable pace for long. That way I know which pace I should train when training specific training. I see lactate as a good tool for this.
thanks Telmo! Glad to hear you have been using a similar protocol, I think that's a useful way to get realistic and actionable data
Great article for a novice like myself.
I am not an endurance athlete but rather I lift weights most days of the week and have recently started incorporating more Z2 work and also the Norwegian 4x4 protocol to increase VO2 max. I do both on the assault Air bike. I do the talk test while on the assault bike but I want to put some numbers on it like HR zones and for this I believe I will have to get myself tested at a sports lab. I am going to invest in a lactate meter and do the protocols mentioned in your post including steady continuous efforts.
My question is: is lactate affected by recovery? I dont know if you have ever heard of Peter Attia or Joel Jaimeson but he is the founder of the Morpheus system and the system supposedly adjusts your HR zones for the day based on the morning HRV score. What do you think?
I thought I had already answered this question :)
low HRV = likely lowered ability to assimilate additional stress, and as such we can reduce training intensity. Changing zones can be a way to force someone to reduce intensity, but that's not really the point, you can use your regular zones and simply reduce intensity (e.g. train a zone 2 or skip the workout and do it when HRV is back within the normal range). Some tools are useful (e.g. tracking HRV), other seem to be like gimmicks just to keep you engaged with the tool, more than to understand the process (e.g. constantly adjusting things that are not even things, like zones, or wearables new "stress monitors' also constantly providing nonsense feedback, etc..) - big picture first! Track your response, and then adjust your training, no need to adjust your zones every day because your physiology changes.
Thanks again Marco, appreciate your input.
Thanks for this. For a number of complex reasons, (high dose corticosteroids being one) monitoring lactate has never been helpful. After discussing it with the ever-helpful Stephen Seiler I replaced this with Cardiac drift testing. Despite lactates over 2 mmol/l with a good monitor that works on others, I could bike for over 6 h with zero carb intake and little cardiac drift. Clearly, for some outliers, lactate testing doesn’t provide useful data.
I’d appreciate your thoughts on this.
thank you Steve, and definitely I'd think there can be quite a few cases where lactate data might not be particularly helpful - even just based on dietary choices. The good news is that it doesn't really matter, it's just one data point we can integrate in our system if useful, or we can use other ways to capture how our body is responding to different training demands. Cardiac drift can also be a very useful tool, when properly contextualized. All the best!
Appreciate the blogs, the App, and taking the time to read and reply. Yours was the last of four HRV apps I used, and the one I’m sticking with. Gratitude.
thank you Steve, really appreciate it
Hi Marco, how long is your warm-up before starting the first LT1 test step? I have noticed a longer warm-up results in a lower baseline lactate. At present I do 10mins (on the stationary bike, I'm not a runner). I get it that you need a standardized protocol, just wondering how long yours is...Regards from Germany, keep up the great work
thanks Michael, normally 6-8 minutes like the regular steps, but I often take one sample before that as well (which might indeed be higher)
Thansk Marco for this really helpful article. I oftent hear coaches that use lactate testing for intensity control. From a point of view I'd love to use it myself for that reason too. But there are a lot of practical problems that I don't know hot to solve. For example how do athletes manage nutrition before a training session where they intend to use lactate as intensity control? Do they standadize nutrition before the workout? Do they wait about 4 hours after the meal before training or they even train without waiting that much?
I think that waiting 4 hours after the meal is really impractical, especially for an amateur. Would it be possible to get reliable results by eating a standardized breakfast, without waiting about 4 hours before training? Sorry for my bad English and my too long comment :)
Good luck for your race ;)
thank you Alessandro, those are indeed all good options, even though you might also find that nutrition has a minimal impact (in my own data there was basically no change in lactate after a low carb breakfast and after eating 40g CHO, just a little higher in the second case, but the relative changes over time were the same). Personally I think this is not a particularly useful application outside of specific contexts (i.e. people that are able to train ridiculously high amounts of time / week at high intensity, and would want to somewhat control that intensity), while for most people you can typically just use other tools (perceived effort and combinations of internal/external load in more practical ways), for the limited amount of high intensity work that is done in a week.