Hi Marco This had definitely been my experience. Always good to see HRV recovering after a stressor. I’m getting back up after a viral infection last week.
I measure my HRV (Heart Rate Variability) every morning when I wake up. I sit down and take the measurement.
I get very high values: 130, 160, 120... On days when I feel fatigued, these high values still appear. My heart rate is stable at 38-40 bpm. On fatigue days, it goes up slightly. I have measured with a Polar H10 and with a camera.
With Garmin (night measurement), I do see that it detects fatigue and gives me values more within my range.
With Coros, I measure the same way as with HRVTraining. It gives me similar values.
I am a runner, with a high volume of kilometers, 90 to 120 km/week.
It doesn't help me detect physiological stress in the morning. At other times of the day, it seems to improve.
thanks David! It seems you are getting accurate data as it is consistent across devices, but at the same time your experience is that data collected as you sleep better tracks fatigue, if I understand correctly. I wonder if the increase when fatigue is in fact a useful signal, similarly to what is discussed here: https://marcoaltini.substack.com/p/abnormally-high-heart-rate-variability - as higher values are not always indications of a more recovered body.
Hey Marco - great stuff as usual. Wanted to share my two cents that I think may be applicable to many who track HRV in a more general way but are not necessarily at the level of athlete you likely work with, informed by a mixture of science + experience.
The tldr of the novel I've written below is I think having some real physiological challenges (i.e. "training"), even when HRV is low, can have bottom-up effects on psychological stress. This is likely more relevant for average people than the highly trained athletes you work with, as they probably do this by default.
My understanding is that as HRV is a measure of the autonomic nervous system, it is in part driven by the brain. These autonomic outputs are in large part driven by what your brain thinks (or predicts) will be optimal. Some of this is based on physiological need, some of this is based on sets of predicted actions. My hunch is that "psychological" stress-related changes in HRV lie a little bit more on the prediction side, but also, of course, do reflect some real physiological deficits.
If what the brain is doing is regulating the body in a complex environment in a temporally extended way (i.e. living a life with all its ups and downs, and weirdness that helps you make sure you have a roof over your head and food in your stomach), then both stimuli such as training and work stress have a common currency of physiological (or predicted physiological) cost (i.e. what you're saying when you say we can only take so much stress—training and work both count).
I think particularly for the more average person (i.e. someone who doesn't have a running coach), a lot of their HRV suppressions are on the more predictive/psychological stress end. If these changes are in part about what the brain thinks is adaptive, I think adding a more purely physiological stressor (i.e. training, but also even sauna/cold exposure) can help in "resetting" your brain’s priorities in the moment, helping alleviate some of the psychological stress. This will, of course, be a bit of a balancing act because too much of a physiological stressor will likely be a downward spiral.
All this is just to emphasize your point about the importance of context and add some color to how the basis of some psychological suppressions may differ in some ways from those in response to more physiological stressors
Hi Marco This had definitely been my experience. Always good to see HRV recovering after a stressor. I’m getting back up after a viral infection last week.
thank you Nadine and get well!
On the mend! Unfortunately have a half marathon next weekend so training has been derailed ☹️
Hello Marco,
I have a question I can't resolve.
I measure my HRV (Heart Rate Variability) every morning when I wake up. I sit down and take the measurement.
I get very high values: 130, 160, 120... On days when I feel fatigued, these high values still appear. My heart rate is stable at 38-40 bpm. On fatigue days, it goes up slightly. I have measured with a Polar H10 and with a camera.
With Garmin (night measurement), I do see that it detects fatigue and gives me values more within my range.
With Coros, I measure the same way as with HRVTraining. It gives me similar values.
I am a runner, with a high volume of kilometers, 90 to 120 km/week.
It doesn't help me detect physiological stress in the morning. At other times of the day, it seems to improve.
What could be the reason? Thanks.
thanks David! It seems you are getting accurate data as it is consistent across devices, but at the same time your experience is that data collected as you sleep better tracks fatigue, if I understand correctly. I wonder if the increase when fatigue is in fact a useful signal, similarly to what is discussed here: https://marcoaltini.substack.com/p/abnormally-high-heart-rate-variability - as higher values are not always indications of a more recovered body.
Hey Marco - great stuff as usual. Wanted to share my two cents that I think may be applicable to many who track HRV in a more general way but are not necessarily at the level of athlete you likely work with, informed by a mixture of science + experience.
The tldr of the novel I've written below is I think having some real physiological challenges (i.e. "training"), even when HRV is low, can have bottom-up effects on psychological stress. This is likely more relevant for average people than the highly trained athletes you work with, as they probably do this by default.
My understanding is that as HRV is a measure of the autonomic nervous system, it is in part driven by the brain. These autonomic outputs are in large part driven by what your brain thinks (or predicts) will be optimal. Some of this is based on physiological need, some of this is based on sets of predicted actions. My hunch is that "psychological" stress-related changes in HRV lie a little bit more on the prediction side, but also, of course, do reflect some real physiological deficits.
If what the brain is doing is regulating the body in a complex environment in a temporally extended way (i.e. living a life with all its ups and downs, and weirdness that helps you make sure you have a roof over your head and food in your stomach), then both stimuli such as training and work stress have a common currency of physiological (or predicted physiological) cost (i.e. what you're saying when you say we can only take so much stress—training and work both count).
I think particularly for the more average person (i.e. someone who doesn't have a running coach), a lot of their HRV suppressions are on the more predictive/psychological stress end. If these changes are in part about what the brain thinks is adaptive, I think adding a more purely physiological stressor (i.e. training, but also even sauna/cold exposure) can help in "resetting" your brain’s priorities in the moment, helping alleviate some of the psychological stress. This will, of course, be a bit of a balancing act because too much of a physiological stressor will likely be a downward spiral.
All this is just to emphasize your point about the importance of context and add some color to how the basis of some psychological suppressions may differ in some ways from those in response to more physiological stressors
always so good to read you Kieran, agreed!