Very interesting! Apart from where you label a graph "Your lungs know the effort before your heart does", though, you don't really touch on respiration as an internal load metric. I tend to go by this quite a bit, far more than using my heart rate. For example, assessing whether I can breathe comfortably for 4 steps out, 4 steps in, or 5, or whatever, normally gives me something objective which I can tie in with my RPE.
right! Respiration is to me intrinsically linked to perceived effort as we “feel it” right away (hard not to notice we are breathing harder etc, which is not the same for heart rate), hence part of it in a way. Often to provide cues for RPE I use breathing, similarly to your example. Regarding the objective quantification of ventilation, I’ll write more about it in the future :) thank you John!
First, as you might imagine I very much enjoyed and agreed with the article.
Second, I’m curious whether info about c02 levels will be in forth coming respiratory post? As chemoreceptors sensing c02 levels are associated with the “need for air perception”. Although of course the thresholds for these sort of results perceptions vary across people, and I believe are correlated with fitness.
Third, on the respiratory changes leading the heart rate changes I’m curious if you have thoughts what this suggests about what the regulated parameters the brain is indexing on during exercise. At rest my understanding is in part (or largely?) a function of the baroflex regulating bp (bp is the regulated parameter). It seems your respiratory data would suggest that in the context of exercise that c02 levels might be the more driving regulated parameter? I’m wondering if the answer might be wait for the next respiration post ha.
I've been a HRV and, an HRV4 Training user for quite some time and I appreciate you sharing what I would consider to be an "unpopular" view that metrics are not the "only real way to improve performance".
As a multi-discipline cyclist and, I've found as you have that the more variable the terrain ie; downhills, poor traction and technical terrain the less accurate of the sum or work actually done.
It took me many years to realize that your statement that "...any data should add to your self-awareness"...I spent a lot of time a slave to my data to my detriment.
Now, I put my data into it's correct place because how "I feel" is the most important data that I have and, I'm still fine tuning more than 30 years in.
Great article - it's certainly resonated with me. I'm doing more and more 80/20 running and have evolved my harder sessions to rely on RPE, and over time I'm getting better at figuring out what 7,8 or 9 out of 10 means when I'm running. But, I've been a slave to HR for the easy runs and recently I've found my Z2 cap (I also like how you use HR as a cap for certain races) is leading to more and more fatigue. Even though I'm in the "easy" runs, I'm aching and have muscle strain. So, I look forward to focussing on RPE for these and letting go of my expectations.
I do have a question though although it is not about RPE. You mentioned the Tymewear strap and posted an image...have you had the opportunity to get your hands on the device? I also wrote about respiration metrics as a measure of intensity (https://bornonthetrail.substack.com/p/breathing-sensor-and-heart-rate-for-performance-tracking?r=39kjk2) but I am yet to get my hands on the strap. The research looks promising but I wonder how it pans out in practice.
ha! Thanks Niki, that’s great to hear (and read). Regarding the Tymewear sensor, yes, I do have one. I put the testing on hold because I want to be back in Italy where I have a proper setup (indoor trainer for the bike, treadmill, and Cosmed indirect calorimeter coming soon), then I will be able to try the sensor during their testing protocols and do some comparisons as well. I’ll put something together later on, probably in October.
Looking forward to reading it! There is a lot of buzz around this new way of tracking load but I'm yet to see really any independent reviews or analysis of this device. Not sure if it is all marketing or is there is something behind it.
Totally agree, Marco. The only challenge with introducing RPE to athletes is that it can be difficult to 'perceive' accurately at first if they’re not used to it. That said, with practice, it always gets easier and more reliable over time.
Amazing article and super excited to try moving toward RPE. Can you talk more about the pitfalls you experienced while learning to train using RPE concerning high HR? Is there anything in particular to watch out for with someone that has been training with HR as they move into RPE training?
thanks Sean! I think that often training using heart rate in a way teaches us to slow down and therefore it can be beneficial in tuning in with the low intensity side of things. From this perspective, your experience should be an advantage. For the rest, I would say the important thing is to really focus on the effort and not on "a heart rate target", and mostly use heart rate as a secondary check or cap, not a goal. All the best for your training!
Nice and very useful blog! you also can use the ETL Estimated Time limit we validated in the years 2000 with Muriel Garcin see papers: https://publications.billatraining.com/
This is interesting, but for me, RPE has never been an accurate or useful measurement of how hard I'm working, because I've never been able to test myself going flat out (for fear of injury mostly) so I don't know what my "10" RPE would be and the distinctions between RPEs that are close to each other on the scale (e.g., 5/6, 7/8, 8/9) are not clear to me. I only started making progress as a runner when I started tracking my HR during runs because I finally had an objective metric that tracked how I felt and (more importantly from a psychological standpoint as a new runner) reassured my brain that I was not dying (even though it may have felt a lot like it at the time).
Very interesting! Apart from where you label a graph "Your lungs know the effort before your heart does", though, you don't really touch on respiration as an internal load metric. I tend to go by this quite a bit, far more than using my heart rate. For example, assessing whether I can breathe comfortably for 4 steps out, 4 steps in, or 5, or whatever, normally gives me something objective which I can tie in with my RPE.
right! Respiration is to me intrinsically linked to perceived effort as we “feel it” right away (hard not to notice we are breathing harder etc, which is not the same for heart rate), hence part of it in a way. Often to provide cues for RPE I use breathing, similarly to your example. Regarding the objective quantification of ventilation, I’ll write more about it in the future :) thank you John!
First, as you might imagine I very much enjoyed and agreed with the article.
Second, I’m curious whether info about c02 levels will be in forth coming respiratory post? As chemoreceptors sensing c02 levels are associated with the “need for air perception”. Although of course the thresholds for these sort of results perceptions vary across people, and I believe are correlated with fitness.
Third, on the respiratory changes leading the heart rate changes I’m curious if you have thoughts what this suggests about what the regulated parameters the brain is indexing on during exercise. At rest my understanding is in part (or largely?) a function of the baroflex regulating bp (bp is the regulated parameter). It seems your respiratory data would suggest that in the context of exercise that c02 levels might be the more driving regulated parameter? I’m wondering if the answer might be wait for the next respiration post ha.
I've been a HRV and, an HRV4 Training user for quite some time and I appreciate you sharing what I would consider to be an "unpopular" view that metrics are not the "only real way to improve performance".
As a multi-discipline cyclist and, I've found as you have that the more variable the terrain ie; downhills, poor traction and technical terrain the less accurate of the sum or work actually done.
It took me many years to realize that your statement that "...any data should add to your self-awareness"...I spent a lot of time a slave to my data to my detriment.
Now, I put my data into it's correct place because how "I feel" is the most important data that I have and, I'm still fine tuning more than 30 years in.
Thanks for a really great post!
thank you Rob! This was really good to read, really appreciate it, and all the best for your training
Great article - it's certainly resonated with me. I'm doing more and more 80/20 running and have evolved my harder sessions to rely on RPE, and over time I'm getting better at figuring out what 7,8 or 9 out of 10 means when I'm running. But, I've been a slave to HR for the easy runs and recently I've found my Z2 cap (I also like how you use HR as a cap for certain races) is leading to more and more fatigue. Even though I'm in the "easy" runs, I'm aching and have muscle strain. So, I look forward to focussing on RPE for these and letting go of my expectations.
thank you Lloyd! And all the best for your running
Great post Marco! It seems like great minds think alike, because my latest post, published just a few days before yours, also talks about RPE and mentions a lot of the benefits you mentioned in this text. Since I knew you work with RPE, you are also mentioned in the article. https://bornonthetrail.substack.com/p/are-you-a-better-judge-of-effort-than-technology-rpe?r=39kjk2
I do have a question though although it is not about RPE. You mentioned the Tymewear strap and posted an image...have you had the opportunity to get your hands on the device? I also wrote about respiration metrics as a measure of intensity (https://bornonthetrail.substack.com/p/breathing-sensor-and-heart-rate-for-performance-tracking?r=39kjk2) but I am yet to get my hands on the strap. The research looks promising but I wonder how it pans out in practice.
ha! Thanks Niki, that’s great to hear (and read). Regarding the Tymewear sensor, yes, I do have one. I put the testing on hold because I want to be back in Italy where I have a proper setup (indoor trainer for the bike, treadmill, and Cosmed indirect calorimeter coming soon), then I will be able to try the sensor during their testing protocols and do some comparisons as well. I’ll put something together later on, probably in October.
Looking forward to reading it! There is a lot of buzz around this new way of tracking load but I'm yet to see really any independent reviews or analysis of this device. Not sure if it is all marketing or is there is something behind it.
Superb!
gracias Manuel!
Totally agree, Marco. The only challenge with introducing RPE to athletes is that it can be difficult to 'perceive' accurately at first if they’re not used to it. That said, with practice, it always gets easier and more reliable over time.
agreed Erik! Practice is key and objective data can help a lot along the way, if we don’t get derailed by it :)
Amazing article and super excited to try moving toward RPE. Can you talk more about the pitfalls you experienced while learning to train using RPE concerning high HR? Is there anything in particular to watch out for with someone that has been training with HR as they move into RPE training?
thanks Sean! I think that often training using heart rate in a way teaches us to slow down and therefore it can be beneficial in tuning in with the low intensity side of things. From this perspective, your experience should be an advantage. For the rest, I would say the important thing is to really focus on the effort and not on "a heart rate target", and mostly use heart rate as a secondary check or cap, not a goal. All the best for your training!
Nice and very useful blog! you also can use the ETL Estimated Time limit we validated in the years 2000 with Muriel Garcin see papers: https://publications.billatraining.com/
thank you Veronique! Also for the pointer
My watch and health app gives me a physical effort score, but I never knew what to do with that information. Thanks!!
This is interesting, but for me, RPE has never been an accurate or useful measurement of how hard I'm working, because I've never been able to test myself going flat out (for fear of injury mostly) so I don't know what my "10" RPE would be and the distinctions between RPEs that are close to each other on the scale (e.g., 5/6, 7/8, 8/9) are not clear to me. I only started making progress as a runner when I started tracking my HR during runs because I finally had an objective metric that tracked how I felt and (more importantly from a psychological standpoint as a new runner) reassured my brain that I was not dying (even though it may have felt a lot like it at the time).